00:00 Carleigh Bodrug
My mom had lung cancer. It was just a really life altering, horrible experience that I think when you come out of that, you learn a lot. And I am a different person because of it.

00:11 Ilana Golan
That's Carleigh Bodrug, founder of PlantYou and a New York Times bestselling author with 13 million followers. But behind that success was a period that changed everything. As her mother was battling lung cancer. Carleigh was positioned in her pursuit and even filmed them from her mother's chemotherapy waiting room.

00:32 Carleigh Bodrug
Nobody from the public perspective had any idea we were going through. You know, I was posting, sitting with my mom at chemo and posting these scrappy cooking videos, smiling.

00:43 Ilana Golan
So how do you keep moving when life gives you every reason to stop? In this episode, Carleigh teaches us how to keep moving when life feels impossible. How to find strength in the middle of grief, and how the hardest seasons of your life can change the way you see yourself, your work, and what you're capable of. I mean, go on.

01:07 Ilana Golan
And this is the Leap Academy podcast.

01:11 Ilana Golan
Hey, welcome, welcome, welcome to the Leap Academy show. I'm Elena Golan. I'm your host. And I'm so excited that you're here with me today. Because, see, my favorite episodes are always when we talked with someone that practically started from nothing and created something extraordinary. So Carleigh Bodrug has now 13 million followers on social media. She's a number one New York Times bestselling author, and she has a third cookbook in the making.

01:43 Ilana Golan
And it's coming out. And we're going to talk about how she started plan to why go for something so different and so more difficult than anything else, like plant based eating? How did you grow to a brand in this magnitude? But we'll also talk about grief. We'll talk about losing someone that you love and how it changes you.

02:06 Ilana Golan
We'll talk about fear and doubt and the pain and how to continue despite all of it. This episode is for you. If you're going to a hard moment right now, or life seems to be going and being overwhelming and you feel like the floor is shaking under you, if you find yourself tossing and turning thinking, how do I recover?

02:30 Ilana Golan
How do I create a bigger tomorrow for myself? Lean in. This episode is for you. Carleigh, I'm so excited to have you here.

02:38 Carleigh Bodrug
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

02:41 Ilana Golan
Hey, before we start the show, I have a small favor to ask. One of the biggest things by far that you can do for us, and it's going to take you less than a second, is to click on that, like subscribe download buttons right now. This helps the show continue to bring amazing, amazing guests. And this small act of kindness right now will make a massive difference.

03:05 Ilana Golan
So can you do that quick right now? Just click that like subscribe download button and I promise I will personally make this the best show that I know how to make, and you won't regret it. Okay, let's dive in. When I was researching, I realized that we both had an experience that I think shook us to our core.

03:28 Ilana Golan
I personally lost my mom to breast cancer, and I even wrote about how losing my mom changed my life. Because it it absolutely did. Can we go there just for a second? What was that experience like for you?

03:44 Carleigh Bodrug
Yeah, I lost my mom two and a half years ago now. And, I mean, I feel myself tearing up. Can't still can't talk about it without crying because that was just, you know, you've been through it. It it shakes your world to its absolute core. And seeing someone especially I say, you know, I think my mom had lung cancer.

04:09 Carleigh Bodrug
And you go through life and you see, you know, some other families impacted by cancer and getting these terminal diagnosis. And you think all that can never happen to me or my family member. And when it did, it was just like the only way I can describe it was like a nightmare coming true. And then to see, I'm not sure how long your mom battled breast cancer, but my mom battled lung cancer for two years.

04:37 Carleigh Bodrug
And the treatment and what she went through was just.

04:44 Carleigh Bodrug
You know, I don't want to scare people, but I find it found it quite barbaric. And, yeah, it was just a really life altering, horrible experience that I think when you come, come out of that, you learn a lot. And I am a different person because of it. How about you? How long do your mom battle breast cancer?

05:06 Ilana Golan
Yeah, it was lung cancer, actually, for for her as well. So.

05:10 Carleigh Bodrug
Oh, you're so long.

05:12 Ilana Golan
Yeah. I'm so, so. Yeah, yeah, it's a very similar story, but Mars was a lot shorter. But it was like a really fast decline. Within a few months, we lost her. But I want to take you there just for a second. When? Because I think sometimes people just think about losing. But I think actually the journey, like the last chapter is actually, for me, a life changing chapter.

05:40 Ilana Golan
Like to go through that with her and to see kind of her decline and like, figure out regrets or figuring out like, what are the like, when to say goodbye, how to deal with the grief, how to deal with somebody like that you love and they're kind of escaping from you. What was actually that episode? Because we'll talk about it.

06:01 Ilana Golan
You needed to continue working, but we're not going to go there yet. But I want to kind of go through that motion with you because that's a really, really big thing that you went through.

06:13 Carleigh Bodrug
I think when you hear that news, there's a lot of grief that comes with a diagnosis where you know it's going to be terminal.

06:23 Ilana Golan
How did you hear about it, by the way?

06:25 Carleigh Bodrug
The diagnosis was a little bit difficult. I'm not sure what type of lung cancer your mom had, but mine had a small cell lung cancer, and she had a really rare side effect from the small cell lung cancer where her sodium was dropping. So she ended up in the hospital because her sodium was down. They thought it was blood pressure pills.

06:43 Carleigh Bodrug
She was totally healthy. Walked miles a day, very vitality like normal person. And, it took months to get a diagnosis. And that was a very traumatic experience because she had this sodium dropping. They were doing these X-rays and scans saying everything was clear. And I started, you know, as I do, researching the sodium thing and small cell lung cancer came up again and again and again.

07:15 Carleigh Bodrug
And my mom had quit smoking ten years prior but had this history of cigarette smoking. So I started kind of on the horn to her doctor and saying, somebody needs to do a CT scan of her lungs like the X-ray is not enough. She still has a sodium problem. And she got admitted to the hospital again. And I remember begging the doctor, I said, you really need to do a CT scan, because they had done an X-ray of her lungs again, and the doctor actually looked at me and said, her lungs are clear but will run a CT scan.

07:45 Carleigh Bodrug
They ran the CT scan and they found a tiny, I think it was a one centimeter tumor in her lungs and it had already spread. Just the experience in the roller coaster of that alone was just. Yeah, as you as, you know yourself. Horrible. And then you're kind of into this wave where you're trying to maintain hope, but you keep going to the doctors every three months for these scans, and they're telling you this is a terminal diagnosis.

08:13 Carleigh Bodrug
We don't know how long to dust. You're kind of living in these increments of time, of every three months of scans to the point where eventually, obviously, she passed away. It was horrible. We did the best we could. My sister at the time when my mom got her diagnosis, she is trained as a veterinary technician, and I had just signed my second book deal for PlantYou scrappy cooking like literally two weeks before this diagnosis happened.

08:42 Carleigh Bodrug
And I remember saying to my sister and my family like, oh my gosh, I've just signed this big book deal off the success of my first, and I've got to write this. But now this has happened. My mom is my best friend in the world. Like, I just didn't even know how to handle it. And my sister ended up leaving her job on compassionate leave.

09:04 Carleigh Bodrug
It was just all too much. And then she ended up coming to work with me, and she still works with me full time to this day. This is a really interesting thing we talk about. Now because had my mom not, you know, gotten this diagnosis and eventually passed away, which I you know, if I could change that, I would, I don't think my sister would be working with me.

09:26 Carleigh Bodrug
My sister immediately got pregnant and had her daughter. Like, it makes, it makes you kind of, I think, take the hold of life because you're like, oh, this is not forever, right? So there was a lot of things that happened in that time period.

09:42 Ilana Golan
Yeah. So your mom almost gifted you this as a as a gift, basically. That's incredible.

09:49 Carleigh Bodrug
I'm interested to hear your experience. What was that kind of process? I don't know if process is the right word, but from diagnosis to the passing is a really difficult period.

09:59 Ilana Golan
It is. I'm an only child. So that piece was, I flew to Israel. So I live in Silicon Valley. She lived in Israel. We would visit all the time, but something in her voice didn't sound right. We didn't know what it was, though. Like she was going through test, And she's like, no, I just have a cold.

10:19 Ilana Golan
It's nothing. It's nothing. And I flew over and, and we had a great four days, and after four days she collapsed and she fainted, and we weren't sure why she fainted. We thought we maybe I'd just, like, over extended her. I don't know, whatever. We just went shopping or whatever. We had fun. Mother and daughter. And in the hospital, it was clear that, it's probably something in her brain, which basically meant that if it started in the lungs, it's already very severe.

10:51 Ilana Golan
Stage four cancer. And, so it was very terminal, I think just even realizing this, I remember just feeling like I got to throw up, and it was incredibly hard to think of death in that form and to decide, like, how to hold, hope, on the other hand, like, for example, everybody asked me to say goodbye and I couldn't, like, I was just like, I was not able to, like, spit it out.

11:21 Ilana Golan
Like I kept trying to, you know, be the light of hope. And I think there's some a little bit of regret that maybe I should have talked to her about some of these things and never really did. But I think she's I mean, yeah, I know she, he she appreciates me so much, but so.

11:40 Carleigh Bodrug
I think the process of something like this is like, I was very much like you, where I was just constantly holding on to hope. Right. So you're not able to almost let yourself. And that's human nature. You're not able to let yourself go there. And I think that that is okay. Like this. This is an beyond impossible situation.

12:02 Carleigh Bodrug
So I wouldn't hold that. I wouldn't hold that. And it's kind of beautiful that you spent that quality time with your mom right before, right?

12:12 Ilana Golan
Yeah. We just literally moved there. So the minute she fainted, I just told my husband, pack whatever it is in Silicon Valley because I'm not leaving her site. And then, you know, and we thought, she's going to have a few good months, but within two months she basically passed. So it was like a really quick, sad but quick.

12:31 Ilana Golan
What would you say is one of the biggest learning though, from this? What do you think? Except for your sister, which is beautiful. What do you think you're taking? Was you.

12:40 Carleigh Bodrug
I think the biggest thing for me is prior to this happening, I kind of went through life, you know, head in the clouds, maybe not thinking about the terrible things that can, people can be going through and even myself. You know, I continue to post like normal on Instagram work on this cookbook. Nobody from the public perspective had any idea we were going through.

13:06 Carleigh Bodrug
I, you know, I was posting sitting with my mama chemo and posting these scrappy cooking videos, smiling. And it really made me realize that you just really have no idea what somebody, a stranger or somebody maybe cuts.

13:22 Ilana Golan
You off.

13:22 Carleigh Bodrug
Or is rude to you at the grocery store. Maybe they've just had a really, you know, horrible day and whichever else, whatever circumstances. So that was the biggest lesson for me. I think I came came out of it a much more compassionate person, and understanding of these trials and tribulations and horrible things. And it's interesting because obviously I lost my mom quite young.

13:46 Carleigh Bodrug
I had lost grandparents. But everybody's going to lose their mom or their dad at some point. And I don't think that matters whether, you know, you're 30 like I was or you're in your 60s, it's still such a difficult thing to go through. And I don't think that I'm glad we're talking about it on this podcast, because I don't think it's really something people talk about.

14:07 Carleigh Bodrug
And it's a very lonely feeling. Like, obviously I was the first of my friend group to go through a loss like this, and you just kind of feel alone because people can't relate. But I think, if we start talking about grief more and kind of the feelings associated with that and what people go through, it can help others feel less alone and be more prepared when that time comes.

14:27 Ilana Golan
I agree, and that's why I wanted to start with that, because as much as you know you can, we talk about careers and stuff, but sometimes life really does get in the way. And there's objective, really complicated things that I don't believe in. Like who who you can, you know, just continue. You know, there's like really things that you need to put a little bit of your own oxygen mask on first.

14:51 Ilana Golan
I'm dealing with it, you know. Is this a little bit was my dad now. And it's like I think it's sometimes easier to just say, oh, shake it up and just continue. And I think the reality is there are some things that are very, very, very hard to shake. So the question is how do you deal with them, you know, and how do you put, you know, like the right energy and the right place.

15:12 Ilana Golan
And, and I think a lot of my show, I want it to be about these authentic, real conversations about the things that really going on to people. And so thank you, first of all, for opening it up, Carleigh.

15:24 Carleigh Bodrug
I appreciate the questions. So, you know, it's hard to talk about, but I think if people can relate to these conversations who are happening and even the stigma around lung cancer, not sure if you've experienced this, but I think the first question people often ask me when they hear my mom passed from lung cancer is, did she smoke?

15:42 Carleigh Bodrug
And it's like, does that mean that she deserved that? Because, yeah, because there's lots of there's lots of people who get cancer who did nothing, you know. So I think untying a little bit of the stigma of lung cancer, like from a generative perspective, people didn't know when they started smoking, you know, 60 years ago that that was going to inevitably lead to potentially death.

16:12 Carleigh Bodrug
But also on the other side of that is, lung cancer, I believe is the leading cause of cancer deaths. And I think that it's severely underfunded and because of the stigma surrounding it. So it's an important thing to talk about.

16:27 Ilana Golan
That's an interesting point, which I didn't even think of. But yeah. And and I think the other element that, you know, I think we, we do not talk enough about grief in, in itself. And I think that just such a big weight on people and their families and yeah, the stigma for sure. So one the other thing that I do love about your story, Carleigh, is, you know, you built freedom that actually allowed you to be by your, you know, your mom's side.

16:59 Ilana Golan
And I think that also reflected on me, like, I was able to leave everything and be there for her, which I think is one of the moments that, you know, is really engraved with, like, I'm so grateful that I had that. I can't even stress it in words. And, you know, you've had that. So talk to me a little bit about how how did you craft, how did you continue working with everything?

17:24 Ilana Golan
Like, you know, I mean, it's and how did you shake up, you know, yourself to do it too?

17:30 Carleigh Bodrug
I was super fortunate that my business was in some ways established at that point. So I think I started PlantYou around 2018, 2019. My mom was diagnosed with cancer. I believe it was 2024. So I had been doing play at you so many years before that I had established this audience of millions of people. I knew how to film a video.

17:53 Carleigh Bodrug
I knew how to write a book. Right. Like that kind of groundwork had been laid. And then additionally, I had a wonderful team of like, contractors who supported me and had made enough investment in my business that I was able to hire out for some of these menial, less tasks that needed me on camera. So that was the big thing, that I had progressed enough in my business that I was able to, you know, maybe not go 100% anymore, take it down to like 60, 70%.

18:24 Carleigh Bodrug
But it was still really difficult. However, I love working. I'm sure you can relate being hosting this podcast, so it was also a really nice distraction to feel like life was normal when we would actually lock in and be filming and testing recipes. And I think my work probably went from like, you know, working six days a week to working three days a week because I was spending as much time with my mom as possible.

18:48 Carleigh Bodrug
I was heavily involved in her treatment and care and advocacy. And, you know, I'm super grateful to my community because I was able to take so much time with my mom, so much personal time because I had had that enrichment from my audience for so many years. So I think about that all the time and able to make my own schedule.

19:13 Carleigh Bodrug
Right. If you're you're going to kind of your 9 to 5 and you can't necessarily like, maybe I can work, go to chemo with my mom and then work like from 2 to 5 instead of working the whole day and going to a normal job. So that was a huge, huge element. And people keep asking me now because I had a baby a year ago, how I've been able to keep the momentum going and releasing this third cookbook and stuff.

19:38 Carleigh Bodrug
And really, it's because I just have a wonderful team of people around me at this point, and great support system that allows me to keep the wheels in motion but not be as present.

19:50 Ilana Golan
Oh, I love that. And we'll talk about it. So let's talk about how you build this empire that you have today. Let's let's go back in time. And speaking of cancer, that started with that too. So if we're looking, what, a decade ago. Right. Your dad survived colon cancer, which I think is a pretty big reason for the how you went into nutrition and plant based.

20:15 Ilana Golan
So can you take us back in time, tell us the story.

20:18 Carleigh Bodrug
Totally. So I believe I was 11 years old. I'm 33 now, so we can do the math. Actually, I'm 34. Oh my gosh, don't even know my age. That's mom brain. So, you know, over 20 years ago, my dad was diagnosed with colon cancer, stage two colon cancer. He had surgery, chemotherapy. The whole bit obviously had a great impact at the time.

20:41 Carleigh Bodrug
We were all terrified. And he's thankfully still here today and cancer free. I'm going to knock on the cutting board behind me.

20:51 Carleigh Bodrug
And at the time we were eating, you know what I would describe as a standard American? I'm Canadian, so standard Canadian diet. I grew up on a hobby farm, and I don't think we ever had a meal that didn't center around meat or dairy. And it wasn't until many years later, around 2015, the World Health Organization had this breaking news that reading processed meat were now classed as Group two and Group one carcinogens.

21:15 Carleigh Bodrug
And I remember calling up my dad and being like, did you hear this news? Like, this is a little crazy, especially considering the link between now we know processed meat and red meat and colon cancer. And so I decided I wanted to go plant based. Now, at the time, I was working as a radio host in Northern Ontario and had a journalism background.

21:35 Carleigh Bodrug
So it came really natural to me to kind of want to share my story and share what I was doing, and I started an account and started sharing, you know, probably really terrible plant based meals that I was testing out, not claiming to be any expert. And the account slowly grew, I think from a perspective and on the tales of this, you know, World Health Organization news, a couple of plant based documentaries came out.

21:59 Carleigh Bodrug
I don't know the exact years, but there's forks over knives. What the health. If you're looking to get into plant based eating, anybody listening, they're great documentaries to start kind of your journey. And a lot of people were going plant based. So I think it was kind of right time, right place. And my account blew up to the point where I eventually started a meal planning subscription around that 2018.

22:24 Carleigh Bodrug
So I've been doing it growing on Instagram for a few years, where I.

22:29 Ilana Golan
Would go there before you go there. So yeah, take me there just for a second for the first years, because the first years are sometimes I mean, first of all, you didn't have any experience in cooking or know you were not like a big chef or something, right? So I.

22:44 Carleigh Bodrug
Had no, no, I had no serious cooking. Like I had no idea what I was doing.

22:49 Ilana Golan
So you were a jerk like media and journalism, but from that to actually like, cook in front of people and like, take me there. Were you scared? Did you worry? Afraid? I mean, you're young, so maybe that helps. But, I mean, you're you're afraid that people will think it's dumb or like, I don't totally.

23:06 Carleigh Bodrug
I remember I didn't tell any of my friends that I had this account. I was like, really kind of embarrassed that I was doing it, but, like, really fired up about spreading the message about plant based eating because I felt so great. And then I had kind of learned about the implications on the environment that our diet has, as well as the animals, of course.

23:26 Ilana Golan
So I always.

23:27 Carleigh Bodrug
Have felt this kind of fire burning in me, but I didn't want anybody to know that I was pursuing this. So I kept working at the radio station and then eventually moved home, where I was working for a hospital in marketing for to help them get money for hospital equipment and still kind of running the account on the side.

23:47 Carleigh Bodrug
You know, at this time it was all photos, so I wasn't really doing a lot of talking to the camera. So I think that saved me definitely a lot of that fear. It was like food photos that I would snap on my phone of like meal preps and stuff like that. So it wasn't nearly maybe as intimidating, but I was still embarrassed, like, I didn't want to tell anybody.

24:10 Carleigh Bodrug
And then, yes, I started this meal planning subscription.

24:13 Ilana Golan
What made it blew up? Blow up? You think it was there like a moment? Do you feel like like certain posts that just made it a lot more visible?

24:22 Carleigh Bodrug
Yeah. So I don't know how many people are watching this versus listening, but I can demonstrate what the photos sort of looked like. And they would go viral. And that was what blew up my account at the time. Obviously, people who know me now, they know me talking to the camera and facing and cooking. But I would share these, ingredient posts.

24:44 Ilana Golan
If you're just listening to this, this is on YouTube and where she's actually showing the photos. So thank you.

24:49 Carleigh Bodrug
So I'm going to explain exactly I was sharing these infographic photos of recipes. So I would take a photo of the finished dish. And then I would put the individual ingredient photos over top, which became the concept of all of my cookbooks actually. And they would kind of go viral. So I would be like, oh, make this Snickers smoothie.

25:09 Carleigh Bodrug
And it would have like a photo of peanut butter and dates and plant based milk. And then the smoothie I took and had that morning below. So those would gain a lot of traction. And then overnight the platform sort of switched to video. And, you know.

25:25 Ilana Golan
All.

25:25 Carleigh Bodrug
Food bloggers at that time were like, no, what the heck? Like what happened to Instagram, what happened to the platform? And I think for me, because I had a background in broadcasting, I saw it as an opportunity and I started filming right away. Like as soon as I remember, Instagram released the real feature and I got on there, and those first videos are horrible.

25:49 Carleigh Bodrug
Like, if we were to look back, they are horrible. But I just, you know, put it out every day after work. I'd film in the morning before work, I'd film and I'd be popping those videos out and, they account. Once I started doing video content really kind of skyrocketed.

26:09 Ilana Golan
Okay. And then you started the subscription. The meal subscription. Well, I.

26:13 Carleigh Bodrug
Was still at the job. I started this meal planning subscription for 7.99 per month. People would get like a PDF meal plan. Again, no experience. So I don't know where I came off thinking that I could do this, but I did. It was like really rough. Like it was not like a prescriptive kind of like this is going to solve a health problem.

26:32 Carleigh Bodrug
It was like, if you're going plant based, here's a few plant based meal prep ideas for the week. So that took off enough that I was able to get enough subscribers that I was able to leave my job. It kind of outpaced the job at the time. And then shortly after that, I had a literary agent contact me, and I put in a concept for this book, which is like the same format that my first book is, and the rest is history.

26:59 Ilana Golan
I mean, the book blew up completely. Yeah.

27:02 Carleigh Bodrug
The book really blew up. That was a crazy story, too, because I signed the book deal and I was just like elated, thinking, oh my gosh, I can't believe somebody wants me to write a book. And I started, you know, I remember going to a camera store and telling them, like, I've signed this book deal. I've never taken a phone.

27:24 Carleigh Bodrug
Not on my photo, not on my iPhone. What camera should I get? I have got to take all these food photos. And so the guy sold me a camera, I went home, I learned to use it. I took all the photography for my first book. Don't look too closely because cheese.

27:39 Ilana Golan
And then.

27:41 Carleigh Bodrug
We wrote the book. You know, you turn it in, you hope for the best. And then they didn't order enough copies of the book, because my platform was growing so rapidly at the time that they made their projections based on, like, kind of when I signed the deal, no fault of theirs, and the book ended up selling out, so it was sold out.

28:01 Carleigh Bodrug
The second day it was out, it hit the New York Times bestsellers list, which I was, like, amazingly grateful for. And then it was sold out for two months because it was Covid at the time. And, there was all these stockpile issues with the books, so they were stuck wherever they print them. And yeah, it was crazy.

28:20 Carleigh Bodrug
It was just absolute madness that was going on because everybody wanted this book and nobody could get it. And I think it kind of, helped with the success because it was this item that nobody could get their hands on. And then once it came back, you know, everybody wanted the book and. Yeah. And this. Yeah, it was crazy.

28:39 Carleigh Bodrug
Crazy.

28:40 Ilana Golan
But how do you go from like doing small like experiments in your kitchen, etc., etc. to an actual company, a brand like, like take me there for a second because that, you know, it's like you need to monetize it. You need to do all the things, like you need to start having teams, etc.. So how do you start growing towards that?

29:02 Carleigh Bodrug
Yeah, I think the big thing is if you're starting a business, I always recommend if you can, as long as you can make it work where you're still deriving income from, you know, a part time or a full time job and working on that nights and weekends, I think it's a great place to start. I would have personally never felt comfortable leaving my job had I not been already deriving income from the business.

29:24 Carleigh Bodrug
If we're speaking, purely creator business, you. When you think of an influencer, which a lot of people would call me, I think you think that most of the income is derived from brand partnerships, which is the reality. However, it's not something that is ever guaranteed. So I think you want to have multiple streams of income, and I always had that in the back of my head.

29:47 Carleigh Bodrug
So starting with that meal plan subscription, then as soon as I was rolling, I set up a website and we have ads on the website. So we're part of an ad network. It's called div and they put advertisements on our website. So we started making income from that. And then I signed the book deal. And I think beyond, you know, having a good Instagram account and being on TikTok and YouTube, the having a physical something in the world really established my brand.

30:15 Carleigh Bodrug
I mean, it has the logo plate, you logo right on the top. So it made it really recognizable. And that kind of made it a known brand outside of just, you know, an Instagram creator. So just making sure that you're kind of like this world of influencing or creators or food creators is rapidly changing. So I always am trying to keep my eye on the ball and make sure that I'm adapting and have different streams of income if one falls to the wayside, because that happens.

30:46 Carleigh Bodrug
So I would say it just really started establishing itself when the book came out. And then slowly I built a team of contractors. So a blog writer, a photographer, because that was I learned that was not my thing. Pinterest manager. So these people that are all experts in these fields that can help support you, and then you see your income kind of go up, which makes it make sense to invest more in those people, is it's a really beautiful thing to start to see at scale like that.

31:13 Ilana Golan
In Leap Academy, we actually teach people how to create portfolio career, and I love some of the things that you talked about, because I personally believe that even non creators or non influencers, everybody needs to now start having some kind of a portfolio. Even with a 9 to 5 job, you need to start creating your own brand, becoming your own economy.

31:34 Ilana Golan
Start creating, whether it's advisory or board seats or, you know, speaking or videos or whatever, collaborations and brand strategies and books and whatever. Like there's so many ways to create income these days, and I think most people don't even realize it. But I think one of the things that, you know, I'm seeing was a lot of people and we were seeing even in our company, I think there's also the fear of, oh my God, now I actually need to make enough money to sustain a team, right?

32:02 Ilana Golan
This is not a venture backed business that you have millions coming in. You need to like make the money that you're actually creating, etc.. So how do you deal with the fear? The doubt? Like were there moments where you're like, screw this, this is hard? Or like, take me there for a second.

32:19 Carleigh Bodrug
Totally, totally. It's still hard. You know, I think the big thing for me, and maybe I'm more of a kind of risk averse person because I just talked about how I wouldn't have left my job if I wasn't making enough. But I think for me, starting slow and maybe not taking on, you know, a full time employee right away.

32:39 Carleigh Bodrug
Looking at contractors, Upwork is a wonderful place, finding experts in their field who can help support your business for like a monthly fee, as opposed to paying them a salary and having that kind of looming over your head. And I think oftentimes people can get in trouble when they scale too fast, right? Like they build out this big team too fast, and then they're in that position where we're talking about and they're burning through so much money.

33:03 Carleigh Bodrug
So I just never allowed myself to get into that position. It would always be like, okay, we are making enough that this makes sense. And it's I'm not going to get into a position where that is a nightmare, you know? And still, you know, my sister is my only full time employee. And then I just work with a team of wonderful contractors who are experts.

33:26 Carleigh Bodrug
Like it's they all have know exactly what they're doing. They all, add a great amount of value to the business and they're all compensated really well. But, I think that would be my biggest advice, is not feeling that kind of pressure to hire out this massive team. You can do a lot yourself at the beginning and then slowly kind of build the support around you.

33:47 Ilana Golan
What do you think? And I love that that you share that because you're absolutely right. Like the growing too fast, which I, I admit that I air on that side many times but but it's it is a really good tip and I'm not a big fan of burning the boats. I'm a big fan of being very intentional. Strategic was how you do things and how you build yourself and your portfolio before you actually burn the boat.

34:11 Ilana Golan
So I love what you shared. What do you think is someone it's, opportunity that you had that maybe somebody taught you or maybe you needed to learn, but now it's actually really, really, really worth it. Like, the book is probably one of them, but what what else? Like what are the, like monetization opportunities that you have that maybe for our listeners, they need to start thinking like, can I make that happen for myself?

34:40 Carleigh Bodrug
My number one tip for anybody who's creating content online or in general, to your point, anybody, is get an email list. So when we think about these social media platforms, which no matter what business you run, you're probably being told to, you know, get on Instagram, get on Facebook. The unfortunate part is we don't own these platforms. You know, I've millions of followers on Instagram and in one moment, Instagram could just decide they don't want to host me on their platform anymore.

35:09 Carleigh Bodrug
Let's hope that doesn't happen. But you need to have a place where you have a direct line of contact with your subscribers. So I was very lucky. And I mean, I have no idea at this point who gave me the advice to start an email list. But I knew that this was something of value many years ago and I wish I had started sooner.

35:28 Carleigh Bodrug
I think day one would be a good time to start your email list, but we invested heavily in moving our subscribers and our followers over to our email list. We have an email list I want to say of around like 225,000 or something. And that's a very hard to build. But it it is. They are my highest converting, you know, group of people.

35:51 Carleigh Bodrug
And they're my direct line of communication in terms of when I have a book announcement, when I have anything going on in my life, driving recipes to the blog. And I, I think that that would be like my number one golden piece of advice if somebody takes anything from this podcast. Do you agree?

36:10 Ilana Golan
Oh, definitely. Like I think the email is I mean, we actually see it now Instagram, Facebook, all these they changed algorithm and within, you know basically like a day you know now suddenly it's interest based. It's not so much followers base. And now you need to kind of beg for people to see you. So I agree 1,000% Carleigh, I think our email list is probably 140,000, not quite as extensive, but but it's big and it's it's definitely the people that know us the most and been subscribed the most.

36:42 Ilana Golan
ET cetera. Etc.. So I'm definitely a big fan. Yeah. And I think the other element is just kind of what we talked about. There's just a lot of ways to make income these days. Most people just think about a very specific 9 to 5. What is the job that I can have. But I think for me it's more about what is the value that I can give someone else in the world.

37:02 Ilana Golan
And it could be a brand, it could be a company, it could be another individual. But what is the value that I can bring someone else and how can I monetize that? And I think that's what you're doing so beautifully with something that you care about, with your passion. And I just love that. And, and I actually going to go into something else because you became a mom recently, and I think it even even more like it changed even further, like how you think about like, ambition and work and healthy eating.

37:31 Ilana Golan
And maybe that was also the seed for the next book. So talk to me about that for a second. Carleigh.

37:38 Carleigh Bodrug
Yes, so I had my son just over a year ago and, you know, do you have kids?

37:44 Ilana Golan
Yes, two kids, but there are teens now. Carleigh. Yeah, well, as it goes.

37:48 Carleigh Bodrug
Right. You know, that shook you shook up my world entirely. And I was so horrified that I would lose my zest for work and my personality would totally change. I mean, I am a different person. That's undeniable. Once you have kids, it's just like, that's what happens, I think. But, I'm more motivated than ever to help people get healthy food on the table because now I fully understand how difficult that is when you're a parent and also getting healthy food into your kid.

38:22 Carleigh Bodrug
So I always kind of thought of it like, how am I going to keep going and keep this momentum going when I have a baby? But now I feel like it's a superpower because I'm like, now I get it. Now. I can relate to so much of my audience that is struggling to get a healthy dinner on the table after running after a toddler all day, and what can I serve them?

38:45 Carleigh Bodrug
So that was really the inspiration for my new cookbook Quickies. Like all very quick and easy, I wrote it pregnant, which was like a whole. I did not have a good pregnancy. It was not not a fun experience for me. So that that was the big thing is like, I'm really grateful. That kind of my takeaway from a work perspective of having this baby was like, I feel like it really kind of added an element to my platform and my work and what I'm how I'm able to serve my community, which I'm so grateful for.

39:19 Carleigh Bodrug
And one thing I wanted to mention is like, I think when you're growing an audience, really connecting with people. Now I have audience of millions, right? Which is kind of impossible to even think about. But I connect with the same people all the time through email, through DMs. And I think that is so important and doesn't make you lose sight of the reality of things, because I just have so much gratitude for the community that I have, and you really need to, as a creator or as a business in any form, need to have their best interest in mind with the decisions that you're making from a financial and business perspective.

39:58 Carleigh Bodrug
Because if they're the ones that are, you know, keeping things going, that it always has to come back to that. So I just wanted to mention that because I think it's easy to lose sight as you scale.

40:09 Ilana Golan
And I love, first of all, the idea of quickies, because as somebody who's trying to run a business, grow a family, I'm not the cook. I think, God, I married well, otherwise my kids would starve. But he is vegan, by the way, so he's already so awesome. Your book. So we're we're we're already fans. You know, I think it's really, really true.

40:29 Ilana Golan
There's a lot of these ideas of something very sophisticated. And for a busy parent like that, just not reality. And I love the fact that you see the individual. And I think this is at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if you have hundreds of thousands or millions or tens of millions or whatever you have at the end of the days and individual that you are talking to with their own fear or their own pain, with their own doubts, with their own needs.

40:55 Ilana Golan
And if you can actually tap into that, I think that's where that's why they're connecting so well with you, because you're talking from your heart to that one individual, and, you know, you have millions of people that say, yes, that's me too. So I love how you do that.

41:14 Carleigh Bodrug
Oh thank you. It's I really feel very still, this kind of fiery passion within me that I want people to eat more plants. Like, I don't necessarily need to convert everybody to go vegan. I think 98% of my audience is not vegan. It's. I just want people, especially from a cancer perspective. Now that I've lost my mom, my dad had cancer.

41:37 Carleigh Bodrug
I just understand the impact that that has on a family. And the more we can do from a prevention perspective, and that often starts from a dietary point, the better. So if I can get people to eat more vegetables, that's like I can sleep happy at night.

41:52 Ilana Golan
And it's funny because I grew up in a place where I think we eat a lot of veggies by default. In fact, like the meat and stuff is actually more rare. The cheese is there, but the meat and stuff is there. Like all all the like. Mediterranean is full of like veggies and stuff. So I grew up like this.

42:10 Ilana Golan
But I think it's just beautiful to, to make this a lot more, I guess accessible to people and that it can be yummy, like, I, I actually prefer that it's yummy with the other. Yeah. So I.

42:25 Carleigh Bodrug
Think it takes a while. Right? Like anything else, like building a business that takes a while to change your habits and learn to like vegetables. I think it's a skill. So, yeah.

42:34 Ilana Golan
What's your favorites from the, you know, from, from the new book. Is there like things that you're like.

42:41 Carleigh Bodrug
That's really hard. You know, we've been cooking from this like mad since I got my coffee because we really are in that season of life. Like, my son is crazy right now. I can't even believe the way he's moving and going around the house. So we have no time. And my husband's been cooking from it as well, which is incredible.

43:02 Carleigh Bodrug
He made these. We have this one pan dish where you add like noodles and a ton of different vegetables, and edamame for protein in some spices and coconut milk, and then literally add the lid, stir it around and it's done. And that's the kind of recipes you can expect from this book. So he's been he's been cooking from it.

43:21 Carleigh Bodrug
I've been cooking from it. It's 20 minutes and done is basically what we have the energy for at the end of the night. So I'm glad I'm getting used out of my own book. And that the promise is true. But yes.

43:35 Ilana Golan
I love it. Like eating your own dog food, basically, in a good way. And in a good way. Yeah, I love it, I love it. And then maybe one last thing I spoke with, I think Donna really, and Daniel Pink and a few people about regrets. And we talked about grief. We talked about death. We talked about, you know, like healthy eating and purpose.

43:58 Ilana Golan
And is there anything that you kind of think about? Oh, that's something that I regret a little bit. And I want to learn better for next time, or you want to do better next time.

44:08 Carleigh Bodrug
You know, in the early stages of Play It you. I feel like these recipes were not tested. I don't know where they were coming from. I'm sure it was like just a mishmash of recipes I found on the internet. And even for my first cookbook, I would have, you know, I wish I had poured more time and resources.

44:27 Carleigh Bodrug
What you do, what you to the time of like retesting things I learned from that. I think from that regret. But I feel like you learn from everything that you put out. I was talking to my therapist about this yesterday because I said, I've got this book, and I find whenever I'm putting something out, you know, you're in it and you're working as hard and at the capacity that you can.

44:50 Carleigh Bodrug
But then when I actually get the thing and I don't know if you've had this experience, you're kind of like, I could have done that better. So I think it's embracing that regret. And when it comes to work, or whichever else, can be a lesson for your future. And I know that's not very specific, but I think I learn every time I'm putting something out that I could improve my process in and do better.

45:13 Carleigh Bodrug
I don't really have regrets in terms of I spent a lot of time with my parents, and I spent a lot of time with my dad now, and I spent a lot of time with my mom. That's one thing I feel like I did right when I look back at my life. So yeah, what about what's yours?

45:28 Carleigh Bodrug
What would you say?

45:30 Ilana Golan
No. It's interesting. So first of all, I'll say one thing about the learning. Like I don't see it so much as regret. Like, I will say, a book out there, mine is right now. It's going to come out next year, so it's already in the making. And I think there's a little bit of a lot of vulnerability about getting something out there.

45:49 Ilana Golan
You literally feel naked, right? It's like everybody sees your thing and it's like, okay. So first of all, I think that's kind of normal. But I will say I'm a big believer in done is better than perfect. And I think just if we're going to try to get to perfection, we'll just never take action. So I think that actually is the reason why you have, you know, like another like you keep progressing and you have another book and another thing and like I think that's just beautiful.

46:18 Ilana Golan
So for me it just shows your like how you're moving forward versus like, you know, staying stuck and trying to get to perfection. But in terms of regret, I think, I don't know if it's a regret per se, but I think one of the things that, you know, sits in my head for sure is that I don't know if I learned enough, from people like, I think I was sleepwalking through life a little bit, kind of thinking that, you know, I'll learn, you know, on the go.

46:49 Ilana Golan
But I don't know if I was open to mentors. I don't think I was, you know, open to people showing me the way. I think I was kind of, you know, I was kind of thinking that if I just gonna work hard, things will just pile up and, you know, come to me and, you know, I'll be as successful as I can be.

47:05 Ilana Golan
ET cetera, etc.. And the other way, you know, if you start being a lot more intentional, strategic with your growth, a lot more strategic with your brand, I didn't think of growing my brand for a long time. So if you're talking about grit, maybe that's one, like, I, you know, I talk about like how when I lost my, you know, at some point, my startup, my job, whatever, and I found myself with nothing like I, my identity was attached to my title and there was nobody except for that.

47:34 Ilana Golan
So I never built my brand. I never thought about it. Like I just did good work and hoped that it would, you know, be worth it. And I think now that's part of my mission to make sure every single person builds that brand thought leadership so that they can achieve the freedom that you achieved. So for me, that's part of the story for sure.

47:54 Ilana Golan
Carleigh.

47:55 Carleigh Bodrug
Well, that's just to your point, right? It all becomes part of your story like the and it makes you better, makes you better. Like we talk talk about recipes. It can be applied to every part of life. Like these regrets are kind of learning experiences. I think.

48:09 Ilana Golan
They are. Yeah. And they're part of what makes us us. So maybe less exactly us. Yeah. So one last question, Carleigh. If you would go back to your younger self, what would you say to her?

48:21 Carleigh Bodrug
If I could go back to my younger self, I would say, keep your chin up, keep going. It's going to be okay. I think, like things do have a way of working themselves out and you got to kind of keep the momentum moving. I'm I'm proud of how I've, you know, kept one foot in front of the other when it felt impossible.

48:42 Carleigh Bodrug
And, but I would say it's going to be okay to that person because oftentimes throughout that journey and I'm sure you can relate with your mom, it just feels like it's not going to be okay. And it isn't in some of those moments, it just really isn't okay. But you will persevere and you're stronger than you think.

48:57 Ilana Golan
Oh, that's a really good one. Oh my God. So thank you Carleigh. So they tell us a little bit more where they find the book, where they find you.

49:07 Carleigh Bodrug
If you're interested you can find me PlantYou play a and TYO you on any social platform. YouTube, TikTok Instagram is my biggest platform in Facebook. If you're interested in the book, it's called PlantYou Quickies. It's available anywhere books are sold. It's out September 29th and I think you'll like it if you're interested in eating more plants.

49:29 Carleigh Bodrug
That's the whole goal of the book, and it's a very, very simple and quick recipes. Oh.

49:35 Ilana Golan
Carleigh, thank you for coming to the show and being so honest and vulnerable and just with the beautiful tips that you shared with us today.

49:45 Carleigh Bodrug
Thank you so much for having me. This was a great, great conversation.

49:49 Ilana Golan
Thank you Carleigh, you're the best. Hey, I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did. How powerful is this? Look, if someone in your life needs to hear this today, going through grief, going through lung cancer, going through their own business, going through whatever it is that you believe will help them. Please share this episode with them.

50:09 Ilana Golan
Let's put a smile on someone's face today. So we are on the mission to help 10 million people reinvent, leave their careers, become the best version they can be. Tap into the hidden market and create not just a paycheck, but the life that they want with the paycheck. So click that like subscribe download button and please share this episode.

50:29 Ilana Golan
It will mean the world and it helps more than you think. So. See you next week.